In the first audio episode of Writing While Disabled, Kristy Anne Cox is joined by author Kate Johnston to talk about her experiences and challenges as a disabled writer.

If you prefer, you can watch the full interview with close-caption subtitles below:

Show notes:

• This episode was produced by Kristy Anne Cox, and edited & transcribed by Kat Kourbeti.
• The theme song, "Funky - Upbeat Loop" by ispeakwaves, is licensed under CC BY 4.0.
• Want to send us a question? You can do so here!
• Buy 'Boundary Shock Quarterly 18: Veterans' featuring Kate JohnsTon's story Losing the Tether here.
• Find Kristy on her website here.

Don't forget: this year, Strange Horizons is celebrating our 25th birthday!

• Want to leave us a happy 25th birthday message? Click here to record an audio message, and here for video.
• Join our Patreon for early episode access, or donate through PayPal or other means here.

Transcript

Kristy Anne Cox: Welcome, welcome audience to Writing While Disabled. This is our lovely guest for the day, Kate Johnston. And we are going to be doing this in the podcast format moving forward. So if you have read our previous eight episodes, those are kind of like season one.

And they are transcripts or email interviews, and that format was really challenging for me accessibility wise. So now we're going to try podcast. Hopefully you're lip reading. Hopefully you're seeing closed captions. And if you have questions, you may send them in through the Strange Horizons website and we would love to answer them in the future.

So, Kate, welcome! I'm very excited to have you. Kate is a writer. Kate is a public health and safety expert. And has a diverse background in expertise in various fields, and she has just published her first pro sale, in Boundary Shock Quarterly, issue number 18, Veterans. As you can see, she has an essay and a guest author slot.

So this is, like, very impressive to me personally. I'm so excited.

Kate, is this your story, the cover art? Is that from your story?

Kate Johnston: Well, no, but it could be.

Kristy Anne Cox: It works as it, doesn't it?

Kate Johnston: It does.

Kristy Anne Cox: And then Kate's story in that piece, so that all of you reading, listening, and watching this later can go immediately go buy it on Amazon, is... so there's the essay called the Worldcon Raytheon Donation Blues, and a short story called Losing the Tether, which we will be discussing today.

So I bought this on Amazon, but support your local bookseller if possible. And this is Kate Johnston, everybody.

I want to call it the subtitle, Subtitled Con Bar now, because the conceit is that disabled people like me and like us in general, right, we are never at the cool kids party, after that panel that you all wanted to be at, right? After the panel at that convention. Everybody's gathered in the con bar, and these are the guests on the panel and their author friends and they're having a really cool kids insider conversation.

And if you're hard of hearing, or you have trouble with sensory processing issues. Those conversations are not accessible to you. I'm inviting you, audience, science fiction fans, writers, and community. Join us at the cool kids table in the con bar. We're in a smoky corner. Kate and I have ordered a beverage, each of us. It's a potable beverage. I will be having the finest Denver quality artisanal tap water.

Kate, what are you drinking?

Kate Johnston: I am drinking... I don't even know which kind this is. This is Deschutes Brewery, Haze IPA.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh excellent.

Kate Johnston: I have a very long and storied history with Deschutes Brewery.

Kristy Anne Cox: Does IPA have a bouquet? You want to tell us about the bouquet or is that a one?

Kate Johnston: The bouquet is mostly of rotten death, I'm pretty sure, as far as IPAs go.

IPAs right now are the Okie Chardonnays of 25 years ago. You can't get away from them, they're everywhere, everyone's drinking them, and a lot of them are not very good. Deschutes is wonderful.

Kristy Anne Cox: This one's good?

Kate Johnston: Yeah, oh yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay, so this is season two, the podcast. We are going to talk about your "Cripple Credentials" first. So, if everyone hates this segment title, I'll change it. But I thought it would be fun to call it Cripple Credentials, because basically what I do is I ask my guest how they are connected to the disabled communities, neurodiverse communities, or to communities that are seen as disabled, like, deaf people who don't necessarily identify as disabled, if that makes sense.

So. What are your disabilities and or neurodiversities for our audience members?

Kate Johnston: Ah. Well, I have ADHD. I found out listening to NPR the other day that I probably have some version of synesthesia. And I'm short. And I'll stop there. Because I think that's enough.

But I also, I also have an incipient, I don't know what yet, because I just got health insurance, in California. So, I have some sort of connective issue disorder that we'll figure out later.

Kristy Anne Cox: We could just say mobility issues or pain issues. Yes. You're familiar with those.

Kate Johnston: So I am the "walking with a stick" people about 30 percent of the time now.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah, so you use a mobility assistance, device, stick.

Kate Johnston: Yeah, usually known as my partner.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yes I am a hundred percent in favor of both of those technologies. The stick and the bride.

Kate Johnston: Yes, just don't apply the stick to the partner, unless they like that, in which case, go right ahead.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay, perfect.

What is ADHD like, for our listeners who don't have it?

Kate Johnston: Oh god, it is, it combined with, what's the thing where I don't believe I can do anything?

Impostor syndrome, yeah, makes it impossible to write. A lot of the time. So, for me, it's the, like, super perfection syndrome. So, I have to do it absolutely right better than anyone else has ever been, which makes me procrastinate until the due date is over and then I don't have to worry about it anymore.

It's awesome. So, publishers love it. I want to promise you that. They really do... not.

Kristy Anne Cox: Big fans.

Kate Johnston: Yeah. Yeah. So, writing to spec, they're like, hey, we need a story in two months. And I'm like, ahaha. Great.

Kristy Anne Cox: Deadlines. Are they triggering? Are they difficult because of the ADHD for you?

Kate Johnston: They're impossible.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah.

Kate Johnston: I basically write things and then sell them. I do not write to spec at this time because I just mostly can't.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah, me too. Like, I want to have a complete piece to sell rather than send one out and then my rejection sensitive ADHD thing. I think it's called dysmorphia or dysphoria. Dysphoria. Dysphoria, yeah. So that's like a big thing with ADHD. Do you experience that too?

Kate Johnston: Oh yes.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah.

Kate Johnston: I've gotten better about the rejection sensitivity since I started slushing.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh, okay.

Kate Johnston: And I realized how much stuff really does not work for this publication at this time, and it's really not personal. We just can't use that story, and that has actually helped me with rejections and feeling how I feel about them because I'm just like now I get it. You know, we have 12 issues, we have something on the order of three or four thousand stories every six months and you have to wade through that and now add all of the AI generated stuff.

It's just like, I-

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah.

Kate Johnston: It's a lot.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. Do you ever find yourself unable to submit something because of that disability related anxiety?

Kate Johnston: Yes. Yes. All the time. I was invited to my first anthology and I was, you know, had a pretty good chance of getting in. And I just could not produce a story to those specs within the time limit given.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah.

Kate Johnston: I'm still working on that story because I need to look up the river gods of southern Nigeria. That sort of thing. Yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: That makes sense. One thing for our readers who maybe don't have ADHD or who do have ADHD, but you don't have it to the level of impairment that we're talking about.

It becomes disabling like capital D disabling when you are unable to complete a task that you need to do because of the impairment that your disability creates for you. So I brought a visual aid to help our audience. So I want you to talk to me about what would be the ADHD version of this. I got this on Amazon.

This is like a scale. So you know how normally the pain scale will show like those little constipated faces and various stages of "I'm okay, I'm really constipated, I'm dead." So we've got, "it might be an itch." "I just need a bandaid." "It's annoying." "This is concerning, but I can still work." "Bees." "I can't stop crying", "I can't move, it hurts so bad", "mauled by a bear or ninjas", and "unconscious."

So, the original pain scale, 10, is like where you're in so much pain, you're unresponsive at the ER. You're on death's door, right? 5 is where something becomes disabling. Because 4, "this is concerning but I can still work" and I know a lot of authors with ADHD who have up to four, and you're very valid.

I'm talking about the kind where you can't get a story into that anthology in time.

Kate Johnston: Yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: So, if I were your editor, what could I do to help you get that story in? Because I want your story in my anthology. What could I do to help someone like you?

Kate Johnston: There's a practice that we have, I don't even know where we have, somewhere in public health. And actually, not public health, somewhere in communications. That's called 'Lowering The Wall.'

Kristy Anne Cox: Lowering the wall.

Kate Johnston: Lowering the wall. So rather than saying, hey, you only have a week, and making the wall higher and harder to deal with, you go, okay, I can stand to have this come in 48 hours late. And maybe not get as much of the editing done as you wanted, but I still want it.

Reiterating that yes, this is still a desired thing, but giving a little bit of grace. And as an editor, you build that in. Yeah. I have a, an anthology in the works. I am soliciting stories. I know exactly how I work. The submission date is February of 2025.

And I have all of that year to put that out for print on demand. Because I'm teaching myself this for the very first time. I have tons and tons of really good friends who are helping me out who are professionals but I know that, I'm learning this for the first time so it's going to take me two to four times as long as anybody else.

So I'm just building that time in. So I know that as an editor, submission date is this date. February 1, 2025. I will still be receiving stories in August of 2025, and that is just the way it is. You get stuck in this thing, like, if somebody sends you an absolutely sock off ripping story, And it gets to you on February 2nd.

And somebody who sends me a story tomorrow that just is not as good, I'm probably going to take the one that came in on February 2nd, and I'm going to try really hard not to feel bad about that. But it is what it is. So there's all sorts of competing needs of myself, of the publication, of the people who are editing, the people who are doing the typesetting, who need to know how it is, who need to have the final edit and proofread done.

So that they can do their jobs. All of those things are competing and every single one of them is something that can stop you in your tracks forever. And you just have to keep going and it is awful.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah, well, I'm thinking, because the next question I was going to ask you, you're already talking about this, because I was going to ask you, how do your impairments impact your work and how do your disabilities or neurodiversities impact your work?

It sounds like you've already got some methodology that works for you, which is finish a piece in advance. You need to build extra time into the process to accommodate your learning curve. Those are really good.

Kate Johnston: One of the things that I'm working on actually is looking at, what I want to do is look at the last 10 years of anthology, the big anthologies in science fiction.

There's only probably five or six.

Five or six series, right? Cause there's like just tons of books in each of those series, right?

The anthology from this guy who's really well known. That sort of thing. I just want to look at the subjects of the anthologies themselves.

Kate Johnston: So, over the last decade, how many have we had on mermaids, minotaurs, dinosaurs, blah blah blah.

Kristy Anne Cox: Not enough.

Kate Johnston: Well, but I want to have a story, in the can, for every one of these. So that the next time it comes around, I'm ready to go with it.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah, no, that's good.

Kate Johnston: So that's one of the things.

And I, I have a friend who cannot write anything if it's not to spec. They have nothing in the can, ever. They're on what, novel number five?

Kristy Anne Cox: Is that an executive dysfunction thing? Because I, sometimes I need a rule set to shoot for before I can actually move forward.

Kate Johnston: I have no idea. It is some sort of wacky magic to me. I don't understand it at all. So for me, I see that it exists.

Kristy Anne Cox: Like, so another thing with ADHD, and I don't know if your ADHD is like this, but with mine, I have the energy to do the thing. I want to do the thing. I'm ready to do the thing, but I cannot transition into doing the thing.

I can't start the thing. So it helps me to, on a different day, prepare to do the thing beforehand. So, what you're talking about, is that how they, how one would write, be able to write to spec? Because, like, that's like the formal constraints of a poem to me. Now I'm excited. Yes.

Kate Johnston: There are some things that can help.

Yes. Being happy that you have rules is great. The worst thing as far as I'm concerned that you can do to a creative writer is just go, well, just write anything. Oh, great. Now I got nothing, so yeah, that's awesome.

There's having constraints there's building your own, in case you need to just decide that it has to be in on this date and blah blah blah, and you have to do it here. There's having someone who's willing to do it for you, who is unconnected to the work. So, if I said to my partner, I'm like, give me a deadline. And they're like, well, for what? I'm like, I don't care. And they'll be like, December 12th. Thank you. And I'm, off we go.

Another one that people use, and I swear that I heard Nicole Cornerstays say this somewhere, is, you have to be working on more than one project at once. In order for me to write the thing I need to write for spec, I need to be writing this other thing for fun.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. No, I know a lot of people who do that. Not everybody is like this, right? But a lot of times, with ADHD in particular, your brain has a bunch of weasels running around in there. And you have to distract the weasels. You have to give them something to do. Right, so I might put a audio book on in another language that I don't speak yet, in the background, just so that part of my brain is busy.

Is that something you ever do, like use?

Kate Johnston: Yeah, I have specific music I listen to when I write. Fatboy Slim is fantastic for writing. I listen to the sounds of different oceans of the world, depending, because I've been to three of them, so I know how different they sound.

Kristy Anne Cox: Can you tell the difference between the Atlantic and the Pacific just by sound?

Kate Johnston: No.

Kristy Anne Cox: Are you a mermaid?

Kate Johnston: I can hear the Mediterranean though, so I'm clearly a Greek mermaid.

Kristy Anne Cox: Right now, you can hear the Mediterranean?

Kate Johnston: Well, if I want to, yes, I can hear it in my head. The Mediterranean has a specific noise that as the waves are receding, the pebbles are very smooth and round.

So as the waves receding, you can hear the pebbles rattle back towards you. Oh yeah. It's the wackiest thing, but yeah, you can hear it.

Kristy Anne Cox: That's awesome. So, yeah, nature sounds.

So the accommodation technique that we're talking about here, readers, viewers, listeners, when you hear writing advice, I want you to be thinking, how could I reframe this as an accommodation for my differences, disabilities, impairments.

And so for ADHD in particular, you have part of your brain that might be bouncing from window to window yelling squirrel. Is there anything else you do to deal with squirrel brain?

Kate Johnston: We didn't get into this a little bit in the previous question, but I wanted to get there a little bit.

Oh, yeah. That, yes, it's an accommodation. I think over the next 40 years, what we're going to find out is that everybody's a little bit different. Oh, yeah. And so the people who are normal are actually the people who are a very small proportion of the population. We just didn't know.

I didn't know that obsessively turning any sound, especially rhythmic sound, into not only just a rhythm but a song, and not being able to stop that process, that's the sort of synesthesia that I realized I had the other day.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh, okay. Is that why I write drafts in iambic pentameter?

Kate Johnston: Yes!

Kristy Anne Cox: See, I thought synesthesia was when you can taste sound.

Kate Johnston: There, there are over a hundred different kinds.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh, well.

Kate Johnston: Yeah, it's just experiencing senses in a different way than people are classically understood to do.

And I think that classic understanding is going to undergo some great changes. And what I want to say about those changes is that right now, this is considered a disability. If you go back in history, and I'm certain that if we go forward in history, is that these are not disabilities, these are considered other abilities.

Cassandra, the seer of Grecian fame, was probably super something! She was on the spectrum somewhere, of course.

Kristy Anne Cox: Neurodiverse something.

Kate Johnston: Most of those people were anyway. Come on! Really? Moses? Burning bushes? Like either that was some really good ganja or he had something else going on.

Kristy Anne Cox: It could be a compulsive behavior.

Maybe he's like, a bipolar arsonist. We're cool.

Kate Johnston: So like what is a disability and what isn't is given to you by your surroundings. And then your doctor will go, well, you don't fit with your surrounding. Like, in the US, I'm 4'10 now, I've lost an inch. That is a disability. In and of itself right there. Just, there you go. Medically. And it is illegal to build a house that has counters that accommodate my height. I have never in my life been able to slice something by getting up over the knife like you're supposed to, because I literally can't.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah.

Kate Johnston: So if I made that, my house would not be up to code, it would not sell for as much, and thank God I live in the Bay Area where I don't have 86 million dollars to buy a house or that could be problematic.

Kristy Anne Cox: How about at sci fi conventions?

Kate Johnston: Oh God.

Kristy Anne Cox: How does that kind of sizism play out for you in science fiction spaces?

Kate Johnston: It doesn't play out for me in a lot of the science fiction spaces because a lot of those are hotels which are made for, to accommodate a big range of styles. My biggest problem usually at a science fiction convention, there are two of them. One, barstools are high. I hate this trend so much.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah, me too.

Kate Johnston: It's awful. And the other one is frickin elevators. Oh my god. And this is not just the science fiction community. This is the community of the US, which is aging. When you go to a hotel and there's only one or two banks of elevators, there's maybe eight elevators total, there's 30, 000 people in that hotel, between two and eight are going to your convention.

Guess what happens every time a panel lets out.

Kristy Anne Cox: There's an elevator traffic jam.

Kate Johnston: Absolute gridlock.

Kristy Anne Cox: And it's hugely traumatic. This has happened before.

Kate Johnston: And the elevators are not big enough to accommodate mobility devices. So you have like one or two people in scooters, and one or two people who are with them, filling one entire elevator. And once you get three or four groups like that, we've tied this up. And it's almost impossible to get up to your room and back down in your 15 minutes passing time.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. Or the next panel that you're on.

Kate Johnston: Yes. Yeah. And you have to go from one side to the other. So I think that's a big, huge deal that we are gonna have a hard time dealing with, given the way that the physical plants come in, the pre-built space. So, yeah, that's a big one. Yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: I think convention planners really need to understand that however many disabled people you think are coming, there's way more because a lot of people don't identify as disabled, but they still need accommodations. They are partially mobility impaired. They're older. Maybe they're just on the 100th floor and they can't walk down 100 steps, right?

There has to be room built in. For people who need extra time to get between panels. Also, I don't want to be shoved into an elevator ever again with, like, too many people in mobility devices, because I've been there when injuries occurred.

It's like, we're trying to get these people to the next panel, how can I help? I know, I'll shove in three more people in wheelchairs.

Kate Johnston: Yeah, this is not Japan and the subway. This is not how we need to do this.

Kristy Anne Cox: You know what, London's subway was like that too.

Kate Johnston: They have packers in London?

Kristy Anne Cox: Like, they have what?

Kate Johnston: Subway packers?

Kristy Anne Cox: Subway packers.

Kate Johnston: Oh, I meant that. In Japan they actually have people who will push you into the subway to make sure that it's packed tight.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh, so when I was in London, they had the underground thing, and you had to step over this space to get into it, and it was so hard to shove yourself in and there was nobody to shove you in.

But I'm like, I'm not getting in there. There's no way I can make it over the gap without those doors closing on me with my walker. Right?

Okay, so the next topic is Methodology Info Dump Drinking Game.

So please gather your potable beverage.

I'm drinking the finest Denver tap water. What are the secrets of writing?

I have ten questions for you and they're going to be rapid fire. What are the secrets of writing with your specific impairments?

Kate Johnston: The secrets of writing with my specific impairments are things I am still in process of discovering. Right now, having my own room to write in. I understand that this has been said by everybody, starting with Virginia Woolf, but it's true.

Having your own room where your stuff happens and you can close the door, generally, on the cat who screams. But yeah, no, having your own room. What's your next question?

Kristy Anne Cox: I was going to say, or ask you, where do you write?

Kate Johnston: I have an office at my house. I have an office, and my partner has an office, and that is part of our privilege that we get to have those rooms, and we're gonna get another room, and we're gonna put all of the instruments in it, including the entire drum kit we have just decided we're buying, so, yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh, excellent.

Kate Johnston: I know, right?

Kristy Anne Cox: I'm coming over.

Kate Johnston: Yes, you are.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay, so. I want you to describe your workspace for me, like, I'm using a footrest, for example, I have an ergonomic chair that I can rise up and down, I'm using an ergonomic keyboard, I have my monitor pulled up right against my face, because that's the only way I can see.

What is your workspace set up like?

Kate Johnston: Messy, because I am one of the people, I am one of the ADHD people who has to have everything in sight. And so everything always looks incredibly cluttered, but I also want to go, "Hey, I need this thing. Oh, here it is."

Kristy Anne Cox: Yes. Yes. Me too.

Kate Johnston: So, that's also something that my partner does for me. But I have this ridiculously huge, like five and a half foot long computer gaming desk.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh, awesome.

Kate Johnston: Because the surface of it is a mouse pad.

Kristy Anne Cox: You're writing on that PC?

Kate Johnston: Yes. I'm writing on that PC. I've got a 24 inch square monitor. There will be other monitors coming eventually. And I have a decent sound system, and I have not gotten it put together yet, but to my right will end up being my entire stereo system and the DVD player attached to my computer. So there's like all of big electronic stack. And then I also will end up probably podcasting in here. So there will be other stuff that shows up. But other than that, I have tons of bookshelves in here. I have a wardrobe and a door to the outside.

Kristy Anne Cox: Do you have a window?

Kate Johnston: I do.

Kristy Anne Cox: And how distracting is it? Do people walk by? Do you keep the blinds shut?

Kate Johnston: The window is to the backyard, so very rarely is there anybody out there. I have a door to the backyard right next to it, and so, if I'm feeling like I need to be writing outside, I will open the solid door and shut the screen door and so I can feel like I have breeze blowing through, whatever.

I will tend to try to make my environment mirror the story that I'm writing. So like, my partner has this really cool motorcycle helmet with the goggle space that I, like, I totally wear that thing. It's like when I was little and I was reading Anne McCaffrey and I would like, make stuff that was like the food they had because that was,

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. That's true! Okay, I'll drink to that. Hold on.

Kate Johnston: Skal!

Kristy Anne Cox: Did you say skal? Is that Viking for 'cheers'?

Kate Johnston: Yes, it is.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay, good. The other question I'm going to ask you. So I am five foot four, which puts me at the high end of the petite sizes and ergonomic thing. So I'm like in the short people club, but I feel like it's only at the very top. 5'4" I think is the top end.

But chairs are not made for me, right? So this chair, I've already got sunk down to the lowest possibility. I use two different footrests. So readers, viewers, I am holding up a black foam cushion.

Kate Johnston: That's a nice one.

Kristy Anne Cox: This is the short footrest that I use. And it can open up like this. And I can make, so it's adjustable, different layers.

And I don't know where I got this, probably on Amazon. And then I have the tall one. So depending on which way my legs are cramping, I have two different footrests. So I have this unicorn footrest, which is taller. Do you use a footrest?

Kate Johnston: I do. I have, what do I have under here? Oh, I have one of those little step stools that you can get off Amazon. And I actually usually have the aerobic steps...

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah.

Kate Johnston: Yeah, I have one of those that I tend to use because it's much wider and it's actually shorter than that, but right now, underneath my desk, I don't have room for it. I am in the process of reconfiguring. Actually, I'm still moving into my house. It's only been... 9 or 10 months.

Kristy Anne Cox: I'm just excited that you've got an amazing place to nest, but okay. Longhand, do you ever write longhand?

Kate Johnston: No.

Kristy Anne Cox: On your phone, do you ever write on your phone?

Kate Johnston: No.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay. Do you ever write on any device besides your PC?

Kate Johnston: Yeah, I have like eight laptops that I also write on.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay. Is there any ergonomic keyboard or anything like that you're using?

Kate Johnston: No, not really.

Kristy Anne Cox: Not really?

Kate Johnston: I use a particularly tiny mouse that is easy for me to deal with because I have small hands.

Kristy Anne Cox: That's very cute. So I have a small mouse somewhere too. This one is way too big for my hands. And if you have carpal tunnel, you end up with issues.

Would you please break down your overall writing process for us? Like, how did you write this story that our readers can find in Boundary Shock Quarterly issue number 18, Veterans. How did you, what's your process?

Kate Johnston: This is an example of, yeah, my writing non process. I needed to write a story about veterans because this is me writing on spec.

Kristy Anne Cox: Can you define 'on spec' for those readers who don't know?

Kate Johnston: When you have a deadline that editors want to have things in by, is basically how I define it.

Kristy Anne Cox: And they've asked you for a specific type of story?

Kate Johnston: Yes.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay.

Kate Johnston: Well, they've asked for a specific subject.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. Science fiction, it needs to be veterans.

Kate Johnston: Right. Right. It needs to be veterans in science fiction. And I had just done something, I don't remember what it was, but it was about, that thing that never happens to anybody, software needing to be updated.

So, I had those two things, and I had a further sort of trigger in that, I wanted to talk about how power dynamics exert themselves and how they might exert themselves slightly differently if you have a different set of people. And so this is one of the early stories where there's they, them for the most part.

There are a couple people who actually are gendered but not as many. There are things that are still going to be a thing.

Kristy Anne Cox: In science fiction and in futuristic worlds, there are problems that will still be a problem then. Is that what you're saying? Yeah.

Kate Johnston: Yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: So I'm just going to briefly diverge here and go to your book.

Okay, so Losing the Tether by Kate Johnston. The hook for me in this story, which I was so fascinated by is this idea that in the future, as we get more and more technology to create implants for people, either for disability reasons or maybe for super soldier reasons or whatever reasons we're doing them, what happens when that is no longer being manufactured or updated or taken care of.

And so you have these veterans who have gotten implants as part of their military career. Is that right?

Kate Johnston: Yep.

Kristy Anne Cox: And no one is updating their software drivers anymore. Can you tell our readers a little bit more about that?

Kate Johnston: So the way I got into this is that, like, my biological father was an army nurse. And I've spent about half my life in medical adjacent fields. And I get to watch this idiot rich boy putting material in people's heads. Simply because he's an idiot rich boy. Yes, I'm speaking about Elon Musk, and no one's really thinking about that, and there is already medical technology that's in people's bodies right now that's obsolete.

There was a whole thing about ten years ago about hooking people who were blind, but they were hooking their optic nerves to their tongue. And so they could see. There's also one that's a tooth that you replace. These are in people's bodies and they are now obsolete technology and I don't know who's still updating those or anything like, can that person still see? Does it still work? Are they just waiting for the next update to break down? Imagine if that's a faculty that you rely on and you're you know, beholden to the marketplace. I think that there's a lot of deaf people who will understand this deeply, because, and up until this last year, they were stuck buying incredibly expensive hearing aids, because it was locked up in the marketplace. The current administration said that is not okay, and they made a bill and now hearing aids that used to cost four or five thousand dollars cost eight hundred and it's eight hundred bucks, but it's still a fraction of what it was. So that was one of the things that I was thinking about, like what does happen when that happens? What becomes of you?

I have a couple friends who are in power chairs. When they have them, they're fairly independent. Then they try to fly a commercial airline and are handed back, not a power chair, but a massive twisted broken tech.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. This happened with two of my walkers. I've had two of my walkers broken in plane trips.

Kate Johnston: Yeah, and suddenly, instead of a capable human, they're reduced to crawling on the floor if they're lucky. The airlines don't care, they don't replace or pay it, and they basically treat their vandalism like it's a disabled person's problem, because now it is.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah.

Kate Johnston: So, much like computers, assistive tech is great when it works. When it doesn't, it's a gigantic liability.

Kristy Anne Cox: 100%. Okay, can I read everybody the first sentence of your story?

" Join the Space Force. Fulfill human destiny. Retire broke and broken in a haze of rapidly obsoleting augments they never planned to remove from your aging carcass. They didn't tell you this in the fancy recruiting brochures."

I just love this as a hook. Like, there's also a lot of other things going on in the story that I won't spoil for our readers. Like, there's a whole plot and they have things and goals and stuff like that. But I won't spoil it. You gotta go buy that book.

Okay, now, next question on my accessibility drinking game, do you outline?

Kate Johnston: Ha! I attempt, wait, no, I outline beautifully. I have been to grad school. I can outline like you wouldn't believe. Can I write to the outline? Boy, that's a different question and I would like to not answer that professionally. Thank you.

Kristy Anne Cox: It's a process, right? For me, sometimes a project I have to outline it. Other times I don't outline. It really depends on the story. I do like outlines though for an ADHD accommodation specifically, because one thing with a lot of people who have ADHD is you know how to make a peanut butter sandwich, but when you go to make it, you forget all the steps.

And so having a checklist, these are the steps, can help you do even simple tasks. And an outline serves that purpose for me sometimes.

Kate Johnston: It can. It can. It's just that I have these unruly characters who immediately, it's like telling somebody what a law is, and immediately the first thing they do is start looking for ways around it.

That's my characters right there. It's like, yeah, we're gonna, go from A to B, and my characters are like, yeah, through ZZ.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay, so you are discovery writing those characters and their actions like a dungeon master then, right? Do you outline just the setting and the major plot events and then put the characters in and let them do what they will?

Kate Johnston: Yeah, I outline where I want to start and where I want to end.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay.

Kate Johnston: Because I don't have an MFA. I don't understand how the structure works. Like, I don't get really what I'm doing. And since I'm working on a novel now, I actually have to think about that. Like, where is our rising action?

And what is that? And how much do I hate Joseph Campbell?

Kristy Anne Cox: Well, do you have to think about that? Do you think readers who don't know who Joseph Campbell is could still write a damn good novel?

Kate Johnston: I'm pretty sure they have.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah.

Kate Johnston: Although I can't think of anyone in my head who doesn't know who Joseph Campbell is, actually.

Kristy Anne Cox: I just know a lot of people who don't have any formal, like, university training in writing. You don't have to have gone to an MFA program to be a writer.

Kate Johnston: No, but it helps in selling your writing. It doesn't help necessarily in the writing of your writing all that much, although I am an anti devotee of the Iowa system, so I have my own feelings about that.

Kristy Anne Cox: Well, I feel like the main goal, purpose of my MFA was to get to work with the people that I got to work with in the program, and also I can teach. It's like a teaching credential for me. I don't feel like any of the writing techniques that I learned were things that I didn't already know or weren't available in writing books.

Kate Johnston: But what was really neat was this built in workshop environment, and I got to work with the well established authors who are the professors in that program, right? So it can be very valuable, but you don't need it, right? Do you feel the same way?

I haven't been through an MFA program. I'm sure there are probably things I would love to learn, but it's not available to me.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah.

Kate Johnston: For various reasons.

Kristy Anne Cox: That's a lot of what we talk about in the show, is that some of these resources that are very helpful to getting a lot of writers started, they are not available to people who are multiply marginalized.

Kate Johnston: And the things that I've gotten published actually were drafted and got maybe two editing passes at most. I just published another story with that same magazine that, it was written, I made a couple of sentence corrections, like, typo corrections, and published. Like, bam. It was just over.

And it's better performed than read, if I'm honest, and I read it at ICFA.

Kristy Anne Cox: That's, for readers, that's the International Conference of the Fantastic in the Arts, and it is an amazing conference.

Kate Johnston: It is, and our theme this year was whimsy, and this is basically, robot Johnny Carson doing a bit. And I got to read it, and it was wonderful, and I had really well known authors going, I didn't know you were funny! I'm like, oh, I'm glad you know now.

Kristy Anne Cox: I knew!

Okay, the next question I was gonna ask is how do you edit? So you said you did two editing passes on those?

Kate Johnston: Okay. Editing my own work is basically like peeling my own skin off. And I hate it, and it's stupid because I can't get out of my own writing.

When I edit other people, which is another hat that I wear, as I'm an editor and a sensitivity editor, I prefer to ask questions. Because I'm not here to tell you how to write your story. I'm not here to tell you why, or any of the other journalistic questions about that, other than "can I help you with this?"

And so it's like, well, did you want this to happen? Could this have happened and still been in the story? Don't you also want to kill this character as badly as I do? So, so there's that. That's what I'm looking for as an editor. So if you as an editor ask those kinds of questions, please contact me!

Kristy Anne Cox: So, you said you did two editing passes. Can you tell me what was in the first editing pass? Was that structural?

Kate Johnston: The first one is always just going to be typos. And the second one is going to be sentences. Does my intro lead to my conclusion? And are the things that I want lampshaded in the intro, that leads us to the conclusion? Do these paragraphs follow one another in order to make up a complete structure?

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh yeah.

Kate Johnston: Is it a vertebra?

Kristy Anne Cox: I would call those structural edits, because like you're checking the character arcs, you're checking your main plot and your side plots, making sure that all the pieces are there and it comes to a satisfying resolution.

Okay, so then what is step two? What was your second editing round?

Kate Johnston: What I'm doing for myself is super basic. I haven't gotten to the point where I've sat down and, like, gone through something really seriously, although, and I can think of at least three pieces that I really need to do that to. But of course, rather than doing that, I'm working on three new things!

So this is one of those things where I can do this for myself. It's probably a really bad idea. This is the ' when the person is being their own lawyer is when they are being very foolish'. I need to hand that first editing pass off to somebody else, and hear their questions and hear what they're thinking of this is going, where I am taking myself off track because I'm trying to be too clever or too un clever or whatever.

I think my goal is to hand that off to an editor. What I am doing right now is in terms of the writing, which I'm having difficulty doing, I have engaged a coach, is now going to make sure that I write at least an hour a week, and is just basically doing a lot of the sort of hand holding and supporting, and yes, I will give you permission to write this thing, which oh my god, everybody needs. Like I mostly need permission.

Kristy Anne Cox: Like a personal trainer.

Kate Johnston: Kind of, yeah. Everybody should do this. And I like I understand that if you're at the beginning of your career and you don't think of it as a career, and you're like 'I am barely making rent, there's no way I can do that', I get it. I was there for everything until about like a year and a half ago.

So I understand what that's like, but what I did in order to prepare for that, was to make my friends in the industry find out who these people are. Because this coach came to me as a friend of a friend from somebody I met at ICFA.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. Well, and for a lot of writers who have not yet published, the role you're talking about is fulfilled by their writing group.

Yeah, so it's like peer editing, that you'll all send something in, you'll all read something.

Do you ever use a writing group?

Kate Johnston: I have had writing groups. This tends to dovetail with the mismatch between my writing and my writing group. Writing groups are difficult for ethnic minorities, because rather than having your story critiqued on its own basis and for where it's going and what you're trying to do with it, it tends to get critiqued as, " well, I don't understand who this person is, or what they're doing, or why they're doing it, so keep explaining it to me over and over again", and I don't get critique that's useful.

I get critique saying, "yes, can you make this whiter? Can this person be more like the reader?" And I'm like, I'm not actually writing for you. You are not the reader I'm looking for. So, no. I cannot write that more for you because it's not going to do the things I want it to do. And they tend to not understand that because they think of themselves as the average reader.

Kristy Anne Cox: Right, which is why getting own voices authors from your own community in a writing group, if you can swing it, is ideal. Particularly communities, marginalized communities, including disability communities, right? Like there's this whole fine balance between, we don't believe you're disabled if you don't perform your disability, but don't let me see you performing it actually how hard it is, or I don't want to work with you because you're difficult to work with, right?

Do you ever find yourself riding that edge?

Kate Johnston: Yeah, I have issues with own voices because it depends on who is owning your own voice. Because, well, I'm adopted by white people. So, what's my own voice? I don't fit in with the super stuffy, 'we have been to university' white people. Because I am a super stuffy 'have been to university people.'

But I also, I'm not out here writing, diction and the hip hop of science fiction. So that's difficult. And one of the really difficult things I have with this is that, yes, I absolutely can manufacture my own writing group. I'm in the process of doing that right now, but it means that I have to put it together. I have to organize it. I have to do all the work.

The thing that we are never allowed to do is to just to go passively consume the thing that is written for us, because it doesn't exist. We are constantly making all of the things, and it is exhausting.

Kristy Anne Cox: What things are we making? The support structures that allow us to function as writers?

Kate Johnston: Yeah. I'm going to have to put together my own writing group and organize it. I am in the process of putting together a podcast. Because there's tons of science fiction podcasts out there, and 99 percent of them are white. 99 percent of them are white men and the 1 percent is white women.

Kristy Anne Cox: Right.

Kate Johnston: And that's kind of it. And nobody is out there doing, okay, here's the other reading of how this goes. I'm just not finding that. So I'm in the process of spinning that up right now. And I think I have something like 30 episodes that I know that I can do. I'm trying to come up with the recurring structure of the podcast itself.

Kristy Anne Cox: Well, readers, viewers, and listeners, if you know of something to recommend to Kate or myself, we would love to hear from you when this article gets published. So please feel free to let us know what ones you think we should check out.

Can I ask you my next drinking game? Wait, drink! I'll drink to that. It's a drinking game. I'm so good at drinking games. Oh, water. Why is it so good?

Okay. We talked about editing. How many drafts, you said, you did two for this particular story, right?

Kate Johnston: About that, yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay. Do you have a favorite writing quote? And it's okay if you don't, but do you? Because if you don't, I've prepared for this.

Kate Johnston: I don't. I think my attitude is mostly represented by the tiny bottle of Writer's Tears whiskey that I have somewhere in a box in here.

Kristy Anne Cox: Is it real whiskey?

Kate Johnston: Yes! It's actually not terrible whiskey either. I've had worse.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay, well, I want you to help me make up a mysterious musical sting right now, because we're going to transition to the next segment, which is Mysterious Writing Quote. Are you ready?

Kate Johnston: Yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: Are you ready? So here's the musical sting.

Kate Johnston: [hums]

Kristy Anne Cox: Mysterious Writing Quote!

I am going to tell you a writing quote, and I want you to guess what famous writer said it.

Kate Johnston: Oh God.

Kristy Anne Cox: And then tell me what you think of that quote.

Kate Johnston: Okay. Yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay, so first one, "if I don't write to empty my mind, I go mad." Wild guesses are acceptable.

Kate Johnston: Yeah I'm thinking of Wendy O. Williams.

Kristy Anne Cox: Very close. Lord Byron.

Kate Johnston: Ah, well, okay. He certainly did empty his mind.

Kristy Anne Cox: Well, what do you think about writing to empty your mind so you don't go mad?

Kate Johnston: I can't write that fast. That's the issue I have with that. I just, I cannot write that fast.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay, you ready for another quote? Okay, "the road to hell is paved with adverbs."

Kate Johnston: E. B. White?

Kristy Anne Cox: Stephen King.

Kate Johnston: Yeah, well, for him the road to hell is paved with the N word. That's his issue. Oh yeah, that man uses it way too often.

Kristy Anne Cox: I would agree with you on that. What about adverbs, though? Do you have strong feelings one way or the other on adverbs?

Kate Johnston: I think that lolly should get them here. Yeah, it's from Schoolhouse Rock. "Lolly, get your adverbs here."

Kristy Anne Cox: I understand that cultural reference. My human friend, who is also a human.

Kate Johnston: I actually like them. One of the things about adverbs is that in French you use adverbs a lot and you start sentences with adverbs. So it's, terribly or horribly, unfortunately, which is in French is "malheureusement", which is like the best word. Like German has a best word, it is "Ausgeseichnet".

Kristy Anne Cox: Spanish, "de repente".

Kate Johnston: Oh, there you go.

Kristy Anne Cox: I feel like adverbs and adjectives have a different permissible amount that's culturally the right one for your writing community, 'cause I know Spanish literature seems to use them differently than the guidelines I've heard.

Like you speak German and French. Right? So in those ones as well, are there more adverbs? Do the Germans care about adverbs?

Kate Johnston: Not as much, because it's the way that German is done, I think, at least that's how I feel about it, is that you have to know so much about your sentence by the time you get to expressing it, that you don't necessarily need adverbs at that point.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh, I'm going to drink to that. Alright. I'll drink to that.

Kate Johnston: Prost!

Kristy Anne Cox: Yes! L'chaim? Is that one? Salud!

Kate Johnston: Salud!

Kristy Anne Cox: What is the one from Skyrim? I don't even remember.

Kate Johnston: Oh, I don't know.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay. One more writing quote. Okay. Tell me who this is. "Write every day of your life. Read intensely, then see what happens. Most of my friends who are put on that diet have very pleasant careers."

Kate Johnston: E. Annie Proulx.

Kristy Anne Cox: Ray Bradbury. Or Burr? Is it Barry or Burry? I don't know.

Kate Johnston: It's Barry. He's an American, so it's probably Brad, Barry.

Kristy Anne Cox: So, I have an issue with this quote because I do love this idea of read intensely, write, develop a daily, not daily, but a consistent practice, right? But as a disabled person who is constantly interrupted by medical emergencies and drama, I literally cannot write every day. I read as much as I can. I write as much as I can. And then his assumption that will automatically result in a very pleasant career, I feel like he's never had a story rejected because his female characters weren't female enough, even though he's a woman writing the story. Or because his disabled character is not disabled enough.

Like, I don't know if I agree with the "most of my friends who are put on that diet have very pleasant careers." Do you have thoughts on that?

Kate Johnston: It's very glib.

Kristy Anne Cox: Very glib.

Kate Johnston: Yes. And it's in that vein of, well, " some journalists ask me a question or I just told them something to make them shut up and ask me the next question." And it's not particularly useful for writers. I think there's a whole lot of stuff that's missing from that.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah.

Kate Johnston: Read whom intensely? Do you want to read Ursula Le Guin intensely or would you like to read James Joyce intensely? Because I know where I come down on that one..

Kristy Anne Cox: Is it James Joyce's Ulysses, your favorite novel, your very favorite novel? I got through at least a page of it, which is farther than I got in some other pieces that are supposed to be the canon.

Kate Johnston: Oh, I read that whole freaking doorstop. I read it. I had to because it was college.

Kristy Anne Cox: Did you like it?

Kate Johnston: I liked it better than a frontal lobotomy.

Kristy Anne Cox: That is a very low bar, Kate.

Kate Johnston: I, yep.

Kristy Anne Cox: I didn't get past page one.

Readers and viewers and listeners, one very common piece of writing advice that you will hear a lot from various people who really do know their stuff, right, is that you need to be reading constantly and you need to be writing constantly.

And it's not so much every day. I'm talking about just a sustained practice. Right. Would you say that part is true that your practice should include both reading and writing in some sort of sustainable for you method?

Kate Johnston: Yes, I think, actually, you can't write if you don't read. You can't write well if you don't read. You can put marks on paper. And so yes, that is absolutely a thing. But I think it's really important as to who you read. It's one of the things that I'm going to do in the podcast. It's why I'm not saying it's going to be the Hugos or the Nebulas, because I'm not doing that.

I'm going through like, what's in my library? What have I read? And how did it affect me? And there's a whole bunch of stuff in there that I can absolutely bet you 99 percent of my readers have never read and hopefully haven't even heard of and they'll go, Oh, maybe I need to read that. Or maybe I really don't, but at least it will show up on their radar.

Kristy Anne Cox: What is a topic that you are really passionate about in SFF?

Like, it can be a genre, it can be a type of monster. Do you like military SFF?

Kate Johnston: I love military SFF. This is also from my slushing because I see a lot of stuff go by me. We need to be really careful with our hard sci fi to make it believable overall. I've had a couple of stories lately that just, if I have to start reading by suspending my disbelief with a crane, I, you don't have anywhere to go with me.

So, start by, by violating reality a little bit and then work at it from there. There's a lot of questions about how people of differing sizes and ages and abilities can be made to work together in military science fiction in specific, and I don't know that they can. And I think that's also really real world, because if you look at what the military is, in order to get in, you have to be average or better physical specimen.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. They have physical requirements, right? What about wearing glasses?

Kate Johnston: Oh yeah, you can, but it depends on what you need to do there. Like if you have ADHD, if you're diagnosed with it, you will not be flying a space shuttle. I had a roommate who was trying to get into the astronaut program and he had to not be diagnosed and just fight through it, because there was no way. My son wanted to be an astronaut. He was like 22 at this point and I was like, okay, I probably need to put a stop to this. Because it just was not going to happen.

And finally, I was like, okay, rather than me saying this is probably not gonna work for you, I said, how are you at swimming? And he was like, what? I'm like, how well do you swim? And he's like, I don't know how to swim. And I'm like, okay, how good are you going to be at being 12 feet underwater in a pool the size of a city block and having to do stuff in there?

And he was like, I would lose my mind. I'm like, well, that's how they train. So here you go. So it's not gonna be your thing. The pipeline into Earth Space Force is probably not going to accommodate the disabled in the future any more than it does right now. If you want to read how difficult that is, read an entire series of books by Lois McMaster Bujold, which are fantastic.

But that's someone who was very close to not being disabled, but being disabled, trying to deal with a military culture. And it's super hard. And even beyond, like, what the military requires, I think price constraints via physics are going to be fierce.

So, yeah, like, if you read Star Tide Rising, dolphins might be great pilots. They might be. But keeping a watertight section of a ship filled with shifting ballast of considerable mass, and it also is connected to parts that don't have that, so those joins are really likely to just rip apart if this ship is under any torque. It's going to come at a premium price in ship design, materials, and complexity.

And the reverse is also true if you have like, a water filled ship with one O2 environment. It's most likely going to fall apart right at that join. And if you're ever going to have life support, or containment fail, you've just lost that entire thing, or you have a ridiculous emergency that you can't do anything about anything going on outside until you've fixed whatever's happening inside.

Kristy Anne Cox: We had readers and viewers, I was going to say, we've talked in the past about dolphins as pilots. And so this idea that you have a multi species spaceship, and one of the species requires a fully marine aquatic environment, but also breathing accessibility. And the other group is, let's say, humans. Then all these factors, like ballast and movement, especially in near future science fiction, it needs to be accounted for.

Like, then you have far future science fiction, like, Anne McCaffrey's The Ship Who Sang. Have you read that one?

Kate Johnston: Yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: So, I love this book. It is problematic in lots of ways, but when I read that as a kid, I was thinking, okay, so disabled people in the future can be pilots. Now, the cost is horrible, and if you haven't read it, it does include the abuse and mistreatment of disabled people. So, content warning there. But I loved that the disabled people were being centered as desirable pilots. Like, do you see that in any of the military sci fi that you've read and love? Like, Dune has it, basically they're becoming more and more disabled for the environment that you used to live in, but less disabled for the environment that you now live in, which is what, an underwater tank?

Kate Johnston: Yeah, a tank filled with gas, spice gas.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah, so once you've taken the spice or whatever in Dune, can you go back to your normal life and, like, shop and stuff?

Kate Johnston: For the navigators, no, but for everybody else, yes. But it has really obvious effects on the body. So your eyes get blue and that whole thing, but the Navigators, I think were genetically modified so that they can do what they need to do telepathically, which is find the shipping lanes for Highlanders to go through.

And so they've had extensive surgery. There's all sorts of stuff like that going on in there too. And I actually, I'm in the middle of writing, it turns out I'm in the middle of writing everything, but I'm in the middle of writing some science fiction about aliens, in a ship.

So space dinosaurs, because space dinosaurs. But one of the things that happens in there is your training montage. And so this person has decided that they are going to go and get weapon augments to some of their limbs. And during one of the training montages somebody's like, well, if you're going to scratch your butt, do it now before we load you tomorrow, with ammo.

And because if you scratch your nose, you can blow your own head off.

Kristy Anne Cox: Because your hand is literally a gun. How do you scratch your face when your hand is a gun? That's like one of the great questions of human nature, right?

Kate Johnston: Don't you think?

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. Okay. Well, what about The Expanse? Because we have a disabled character in The Expanse who, her spine is severed or injured, right? And then she gets a mech suit to help her walk as an accommodative device.

Kate Johnston: Ah, okay.

Kristy Anne Cox: Are you familiar with the part that I'm talking about?

Kate Johnston: I think you're talking about Drummer, Camina Drummer.

Kristy Anne Cox: I don't remember any of the character's names. I just know that she's like the most metal. She's amazing. They're having some kind of a conversation for some kind of a plot reason. And she gets trapped between two vehicles and her spine gets injured. And so then you see her with this brace and these metal legs and they didn't cure her, but they gave her an accessibility device that she could use, which I love.

Kate Johnston: And that series also has gravity torture in it, right? So people who live on Mars are disabled on Earth. Because the gravity is so harmful to them that it can be used as a method of torture, right?

And I think most people miss the very first episode where The Canterbury is an ice hauler, and so this huge blodge of ice is coming into the cargo bay, and they lose control. It rockets in and hits this guy and it cuts his arm off. And there's this quick conversation that just goes right by most people where they're like, " are you going to go and get the latest computer controlled arm?" And he's like, " No. The union medical is good enough for me. You think I'm going to get one of the-" Yeah, it's a really cool conversation, but it goes by in just a flash of an eye.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah, I was expecting to see him later with like a toaster for an arm. But, unfortunately, that never happened.

Kate Johnston: Yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: Okay, so this is the last formal question I have for you since we're running out of time.

Kate Johnston: Yes.

Kristy Anne Cox: Kate, are you part of a secret feminist writers cabal that is conspiring to control awards and publication power and will only allow certain people in? Is there a secret feminist cabal? Because I haven't seen you at meetings lately.

Kate Johnston: I would have to say no. I am nodding my head.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yes, readers, viewers, listeners. Whatever you are. Kate is jiggling her head.

Kate Johnston: Oh, yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: Awesome. Okay, so I want to open this up to questions from the audience. So I have an emotional support audience of three volunteers who are in my comments anonymously here, being supportive, emotionally, of this podcast.

So I have one question. Beginning seems to be hard with ADHD. How do you trick your brain and just begin?

Kate Johnston: I stare at a blank sheet of a word document in rising panic. Generally I do. I may have certain methods of mood elevation.

Kristy Anne Cox: So we've talked about medication management, we've talked about using medicinal substances that are culturally specific.

Kate Johnston: And you know, generally what makes me sit down and write is that I have a giant hair up my butt about something and I just want to write about it, and we're gonna illustrate what this is in my characters and blah blah blah blah blah. And that's pretty much what it is. I need to have something to say.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. Well, Mysterious Audience Member, I address that issue by planning in advance. So I will write a checklist for myself. These are the steps that I'm going to be doing in my next writing session. So it might be Scene A, here's what I think it's going to be, beginning and ending, and my goal is to be sure I hook this new character sometime in that scene.

And then when I sit down to write, I'm not staring at a blank page, I'm staring at a gamified list of formal constraints. When I'm writing a sonnet, I am thrilled with the formal constraints. They are generative for me. When I'm staring at a blank page, I go blank myself. It's like it's a contagious blankness.

I don't know. Do you feel that way Kate?

Kate Johnston: No! I sometimes like the blank page for that reason is that, it does feel clean to me. And when I start with a whole bunch of constraints of that nature, I am usually paralyzed by poetry. I've written my first couple of poems this last year that actually landed well with people, but I'm utterly incapable of dealing with trying to put my words down in a specific form.

And yet I love music. I love lyrics. I just don't write them. But I have a feeling that it's coming. Like, I will get there, eventually.

Kristy Anne Cox: Well, another issue, not issue, but another way to apply this would be in fiction writing, right? Your formal constraints might be your genre. If I'm writing a military science fiction short story, are not my formal constraints that it needs to include the military?

Kate Johnston: Yeah.

Kristy Anne Cox: Or maybe I'm using a page limit?

Kate Johnston: Well, one of the things that hit me about a couple years ago is that science fiction is not a genre. It's a setting. And everything else that happens within it is the genre. You can have mystery science fiction. You can have men's adventure science fiction. Most of television science fiction is horror science fiction. You can have comedy science fiction. All of these things, but it's just a setting. Sure, give me a mystery, but put it on a space station or I don't care. I will watch Sesame Street in space.

Kristy Anne Cox: I would watch it.

Kate Johnston: This is brought to you by the letter O and the number 2.

Kristy Anne Cox: In space. Everything is better within space.

Kate Johnston: But I wanted to point out to that if buying that story, in the Veterans edition does not knock your socks off, I have another option for you.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh, what is it? Tell me.

Kate Johnston: I do diversity in all ways, kids. I love the fact that you were like, "Oh, you, you sold the story and you sold an essay. " Not only diddI do that, my first year of publication, I also sold that story as a reprint. That's how hard I'm working.

It is in the anthology, Playing with a Full Deck, Stories of Hope in Hard Times, which is an Aces High Jokers Wild collection by O. E. Tierman. Aces High Jokers Wild is their series of books. And then this one is about persevering in the face of obstacles. And it actually has a different title, it's called Midwives. For obvious reasons, once you read the book.

Kristy Anne Cox: That is amazing. And everyone who has not yet read Kate's debut story into the science fiction scene, that story, once again, is-

Kate Johnston: In Boundary Shock it is Losing the Tether.

Kristy Anne Cox: Losing the Tether.

Kate Johnston: Yep. In Aces High, Jokers Wild, it is Midwives.

Kristy Anne Cox: What parting advice do you have for any aspiring writers in our audience who are disabled in similar ways to you, or differently abled, or neurodiverse? What advice do you have for them? Do you have any words of wisdom?

Kate Johnston: I am somebody who's pretty motivated by the company that I keep. So rather than approaching science fiction as a business start, or as a fandom to start, I started out with, who do I read, and who do I want to know? And so I started going to cons and meeting people, and just doing it as a personal interaction. So I have something like, 1200 friends on Facebook, probably half of them have some connection to writing.

And so when I come to, oh, hey, I have a podcast that I need to do and I would like to do at least one episode on the chronologically gifted women of science fiction. And so I can just go to Facebook and go, "Hey, ladies. Would you like to be on the podcast? Would you like to be all together as one? Get a hold of me," and in the next month or so those will start rolling in of "hey I'd like to be on this thing" or "I'd like to do this."

I have an episode that I would like to do on The Joanna Russ story, We Who Are About To, and a chapter of Greg Stephen Baxter's evolution, which are very close to each other thematically.

And the person who was on the concom for Eastercon, is doing Joanna Russ's papers right now, and I happen to know this person, so I just said, Hey, when I do this episode, are you willing to come in and talk about Joanna Russ and what you found physically handling the papers that she physically handled. And she's willing to do that.

And I just want to tell people, in case you didn't know this, when science fiction writers go to the great beyond, most often their writings and papers and all of their stuff is cataloged and kept at a university. There are people who do this called archivists. The very best one's name is Jeremy Brett because he's awesome.

Kristy Anne Cox: Don't say that in front of Phoenix.

Kate Johnston: And Phoenix is welcome to come after me for that one... But one of the things that happens is that, that you watching this, if you can get to wherever their collection is held, which is usually at a university, you can just go do that! You can rent time and go in and touch the things they touched and be in the proximity and get the stuff!

So, there's a writer named Suzette Hayden Elgin who just warms the cockles of my little communication heart. And she's great. She wrote a trilogy called Native Tongue, which is fantastic! Go read it! And then she also, I did not know this until the other day, has a previous trilogy. Her papers are kept in Eugene, Oregon at the University of Oregon. And next year, because Worldcon is in Seattle, and I'm probably just driving north along the Bay, north along the shore, we're looking at possibly stopping for a day or so in Eugene, so that I may go fondle the dead tree writings of this person and it would make me very happy.

Kristy Anne Cox: Well, and this is like an approach that I think a lot of people benefit from. You're talking about finding and developing a water cooler community, right? Like where you go to ask people for help and complain about the latest writing scandal and etc. For a lot of us, that's Facebook. Facebook is a LinkedIn for writers. So, hey nerds, you're going to need a Facebook page. If you want to find friends on Facebook, I should say. You don't have to have it to write, but having a community of people you can talk to really helps.

Which is another benefit of a writing group, right? They can be your cohort that kind of come up with you ideally in the publishing world. They're your peers. But there are a lot of experienced writers out there offering their pearls of wisdom at conventions, online. Never before in, in the history of humanity has information about how to write been so freely available.

So I'm going to let you wrap this up. What do you want to end with? What topic do you wish I had asked you?

Kate Johnston: I think we went through all the stuff that we had in our outline.

Kristy Anne Cox: We have.

Kate Johnston: Yeah, actually, I'm going to keep going with that. There were a couple of quotes that I really liked.

As trite as it is, motivation is about finding your audience, and then expanding it. I do it by participating. I did not know when I landed in Florida last month that I would be doing my coffee with creatives, it's a little panel with just the creative people. I was doing with the guest of honor, Katie Murphy, who is hysterically funny.

If you have never read Jane Eyre, don't. Go read Katie Murphy. It'll do you good. And she was just ridiculously funny, and I loved her. And she liked what I had read, and then she was like, there's gotta be more. And so I pulled up another work in progress that I have, the one about dinosaur breeding.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh, I love that one.

Kate Johnston: Yeah. I've had other people read it, but I wasn't there. And so to read it out loud to people and listen to them laugh in real time was just like, oh my god, I have to finish this story.

Kristy Anne Cox: Yeah. It's a live audience. Particularly for armchair comedians like ourselves, right? Like, we like an audience. One thing I love about that is you can see the live reactions on their face so you know when you're getting boring. It's like when you tell a story around a campfire. It's about the audience, you are there to entertain them.

Kate Johnston: Yep. There were not a lot of people in that audience. There weren't. But I will tell you, next year, there's gonna be at least three more.

A storied and well known and well read author, who happens to be the husband of one of the other guest of honors, was in that reading and he stood up and turned to me and he goes, I didn't know you were funny. And I was like, alright Jeffrey, now you know.

Kristy Anne Cox: So, yeah, readers, please look at the previous episodes. I've asked a lot of our guests questions about how you break in, what your methodology is. And one way that you can get more connections is to make friends in your professional community and maybe just follow them on social media and listen to what they're saying. You don't have to pester them with questions. Don't say, "teach me to write, Stephen King" on his Facebook page, because he's not going to have time. He's busy, right? But you could follow a whole bunch of authors and join the conversation online in writing communities, is what I'm saying. Readers, or you can go to cons or you can watch this video 500 times, and you'll feel like we're your best friends.

Kate Johnston: But just also know that "a con is a con" does not exist. They're all very different. And when I talk about going to a convention and having time to talk to other writers and time to talk to readers, I'm not talking about Comic Con and the conversations you have in line for an hour and a half to get a three second photograph of Nathan Fillion. That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about places like Eastercon, Balticon, Wiscon, which is not happening this year, and it's just making my heart a little sad. I go to Bay Con as well, so if you're in the Bay Area of California, come down and see me there.

Kristy Anne Cox: And everybody who is reading this, please go check out Kate's story in Boundary Shock Quarterly.

Kate Johnston: I am not paying Kristy to be my publicist, but it is now in the works.

Kristy Anne Cox: Oh, good. I would like the money. So let's talk about that later. Audience members, if you have questions, if you have concerns, I want to hear about it on social media.

So you will be able to find this on strangehorizons. com and you can also find the previous eight episodes. And if you have a question that you would like Kate or another guest to answer, feel free to put it on there. I will have guests come back. If you have unresolved questions, I will track them down and ask them some questions. Except for those that have taken out a restraining order against me.

So, I'm going to say thank you, Kate. Thank you, Emotional Support Audience. And this has been Writing While Disabled, the Subtitled Con Bar. So, yay! I applaud us, and I'll take a drink to that, because this was supposed to be a drinking game.

Kate Johnston: So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye!